What Are The Benefits of Intermittent Fasting for Women?


Benefits of Intermittent Fasting for Women?

Watch this incredible discussion on intermittent fasting for women. Intermittent fasting helps you lose weight, makes dieting easier by allowing you to eat delicious meals without the guesswork, and has many health benefits.

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When Do Hunger Pains Go Away While Fasting

With intermittent fasting, the benefits are mostly hunger is lower. Actually, just people who are constantly writing about the glycemic response curve and they’re constantly spiking and dropping their blood sugar and so they’re getting low low blood sugars. They’re getting insulin spikes insulin makes you hungry you know so if you’re constantly pulsing insulin throughout the day with sugar you’re getting hungrier because you’re eating food that is making you hungrier right and on top of that we get thousands of messages of food all day long to eat. That activates the dopaminergic systems in our brain the hedonism pathways the pleasure pathway is through the wanting and the liking of food and that can make you think you’re hungry even though you’re really just you just want the food or you just like the way food tastes right and this is why we’re eating a multi-course meal you’re easy you’re able to easily eat more food because of different foods tasting good continues to activate that pathway and so it’s not that you actually necessarily have room for all this food it’s that it’s a novel experience all right hey friends welcome to this week’s episode of a human podcast this is your host Geoffrey Wu I had another great conversation this week with my good friend Rr. Molly Maloof who’s not only the head of medical science at Sun OH intelligence a continuous glucose monitoring startup but also a private doctor for prominent folks in Silicon Valley after our last conversation with Molly episode 55 about half a year ago she began to experiment with intermittent fasting we touch upon a number of aspects of fasting its effects on the gut microbiome the feeling of empowerment one gains over food as the body gets adapted to fasting and Molly’s n equals one fasting experiences and experiments as a woman this is a great discussion that why you should try intermittent fasting elucidates the frequently asked question how does the effects of fasting differ between men and women I hope you all enjoy this episode as much as we did recording it let’s get started great to have you back dr. Molly thanks so that’s where to call you dr. Molly but I know right now that you earned your medical degree there it’s true so the last time you’re on the show is five months ago and has happened since then I know that you were just starting a sign out the time can you miss learning company and obviously a lot has happened yeah the last five months for you guys what has happened for us at human where our ketone esters finally now launch of the world and now you’ve been experimenting with that. REVERSE DIETING PLAN RESULTS. Kay talk about that yeah I know you also been traveling a lot so what’s new what have you been up to oh my gosh so I think around five months ago I was just kind of getting interested in fasting and still was quite skeptical but also very curious and as I’ve been doing just so much research in continuous glucose monitoring and glucose metabolism I had this um you know hypothesis that okay maybe if I fast it’ll lower my fasting glucose because over the last year I had changed my nutrition and I’d lowered my postprandial glucose so after meal glucose pretty dramatically and I dropped my hemoglobin a1c a whole point from like five point six to four point six but I still had like a missus through diet through diet okay but I haven’t really implemented fasting yet and I was really curious about it and I wanted to see what would happen to my fasting glucose if I started fasting and I was thinking okay first principles it would make sense that if you would fast that your fasting glucose would just go down like why wouldn’t it go down and over the last two months I started and I’ve been sort of chronicling it on my Instagram and going from intermittent fasting I mean first of what I did was I did a month on keto which I didn’t really feel awesome on that month however I did get really what well fat adapted so that made doing intermittent fasting a lot easier for me and then from intermittent fasting for a couple weeks I went into like a full 24-hour fast and then I went into like 36 hours than 48 hours that 52 and 63 than 72 and I it just got easier the lot like the more fat the more I fasted the easier it got I became better friends with one of your investors Phil Libin who basically like brainwashed me into believing that fasting would change my life and I stop pregnancy food cravings actually totally believed believe him now because uh in a lot of ways I think you know after doing I mean I read I read the book the ultimate guide fasting or the complete guide to fasting I’m such a fan girl of him at this point he’s just like such a hero I’m trying to get him to advise on oh I actually need you to send an intro to me for him um yeah so fasting has like sort of it sort of came from a challenge of wanting to see what happened what would happen to my fasting glucose and not surprisingly it’s gone down pretty dramatically but um where did started or you it was it was like hovering around like 89 or so and now I’ve gotten it down to like early 80’s so like today um I’d eaten a bunch of food for breakfast and it was still only heart healthy eating okay I was like that’s what it was pretty low carb but still like I had enough I had enough carbs in the breakfast for it to have gotten higher so I I actually think my metabolisms been changing your glucose control is really really good it’s gotten really good and it’s also just kind of amazing how by doing continuous glucose monitoring and then also doing ketone monitoring and also doing finger prick my ring I’m starting to be able to predict what my blood sugar is and I kind of know like oh this is what it feels like to be like 50 and also have ketones you know um I’ve been doing tons of experimentation with different types of fasts and different types of fasting aids and then just doing research on you know what’s the science behind what would be the best type of fast for different goals and so I’m working on my own sort of like succinct version of the complete guide to fasting and really like what’s scientifically backed four different lengths of fasts and yeah I’m kind of like a full-on fasting cult convert I think that’s actually a good point that you bring up there’s these like broad rules around a 16-8 or a 36-hour to incorporate intermittent fasting. But, they’re you should really take into context what your goals are hmm what your initial body composition is okay your percent agree my fasting protocols really changed since um marathon training yeah I like I’m doing a lot shorter fast on exercise yeah because you don’t want to get too low body fat I mean this is something that a lot of people need to think about especially women in particular because we are not the same as men and we have been combing through the literature I’ve been trying to find research on female hormones and fasting yeah and I’m coming up with very little information on this because it just doesn’t exist like if it existed I would be able to find it and I’m not I’m fighting a little bit of data I’m finding you can boost metabolism to lose weight yeah yeah I mean but to think about Ramadan fasting public scented fast is that  casting a is mostly isocaloric most people are that meaning that most people are eating the same amount of calories they’re just eating them at night they’re not drinking water and most the time it’s it seems to not affect metabolism that much you seemed like it’s kind of like a null mitat metabolic you know effect which is interesting because like i haven’t seen many many studies showing any harm from and I’m fasting but I also haven’t seen a lot of improvements in health right cuz you’re kind of having like a 12 14 hour fast and window it’s like not even just eating at night and there’s really a lot of evidence suggesting that circadian rhythms actually do we’re kind of programmed to put on fat and weight if we eat at night on a purpose right because like if you think about evolutionary biology it would make sense that if you spent your day hunting and then you spent your evening maybe either if you had a fire cooking and eating the food and not eating very much of it like any kind of any type of food you had at night like you were probably trying to store that because you knew that you didn’t know what your next meal was gonna be so there’s some great research and products from weight watchers coming out on circadian rhythms and I just don’t think that like I that investing necessarily is good or bad I think it’s a religious practice but my own personal experience is with hormones in for keto in particular is I did a I did a um while I was doing that month on keto I was doing a urine hormone menstrual rhythm test where I was doing multiple urine samples throughout the course of a month to track my hormones and then just like be clear like what was your macros on a keto I was eating less than 25 grams of carbs a day net carb net carbs and I was testing for ketosis and I was pretty much in ketosis most the month okay like above 1.0 mm old yeah yeah um it wasn’t nearly as high as fasting ketoses I would get into but it was it was still generally hovering about legitimate eating. How can I control my weight without dieting? Quito yeah and this was a part like a first time actually tracked everything in like measured everything and and it was it was interesting but I also wasn’t um I wasn’t at a major calorie deficit so I wasn’t necessarily losing weight this month I else a little bit of water weight but but I was pretty pretty surprised at like how my estrogen and progesterone levels went lower and so I started thinking a lot about what is a fad what is ketosis is telling your body and really it seems like ketosis is telling your body that you’re in a famine because typically when our ancestors were exposed to fat metabolism it was when they weren’t when they didn’t have access to food right right or you were losing weight in 8 weeks. Eskimos are right so you’re like eating fat to stay alive and it seems like to me to me my hypothesis is that when you when you send those signals to your body as a woman you’re kind of saying hey like resources need not go to fertility right you should probably be trying to stay alive right now and so survival I think will always trump fertility and if your body thinks it’s in a survival mode then it wouldn’t it would make sense for you to have an effect on your hormones now at the same time just thing I do believe that there are a lot of women who have insulin resistance and have tried keto ketogenic diets and have actually improved their ovarian health because they’ve reduced that insulin resistance and benefits of eating apples overall improved their their body’s metabolism so it’s again it’s like where are you beginning in terms of your metabolic health and where do you have to go so like I am starting out with like a fairly well toned metabolites metabolism and then you put it into ketosis and then you put it into fasting and now like I’m I’m actually really curious to know like how my hormones are gonna change because of this and I’m also just curious to know like what’s the best schedule for me because eventually I do want to have kids right but you know I do like feeling leaner in the summer I don’t mind feeling a little bit softer in the winter because it’s a hibernation mode right yeah but I think we we need to start doing large scale studies on human metabolism and fasting to understand what’s the best dose for everyone like we that too much food is bad for people okay and I know that like I have a family history. Do flavors affect your diet? Guess what well you what you don’t have fasting improves all of those things like I have a list of like 40 different things that fasting does for your body and those are pretty amazing things that can happen from just producing food intake so those are the diseases that are the top 10 killers right like dieting that works like these arthritis like I already have celiac right so I already have one autoimmune disease and it’s really common for people without immunity to have more than one right and so like if I can actually improve my my immune system through fasting like this is gonna be part of my life now like question is how much for what dose to keep my hormones healthy what’s that I won’t go on starvation mode in like fast for seven days and legs just drop out your hormones right yeah it’s like what’s that balance exactly and like well so this is the coolest thing that’s happened to me um I before starting fasting was not able to eat dairy easily alright so I go to Israel recently and you asked earlier about where I’ve been traveling I go to Israel and I go to Lebanon and I’m eating foods out there and I’ve been fasting on the way there I fasted during every plane trip I took on this trip I took I played I played took flight over there and then I went to Israel for a few days Frankie then I took a flight to Cyprus fasted went to Lebanon still fasted and then on the way back through Iceland on a layover I was fasting so I fasted about four or five days on this whole trip out of two weeks and um and the funniest thing is is that I’m in Israel and I’m kind of like not listening letting myself go because I’m actually eating healthy but there’s a lot of dairy and their and their food there and I don’t you normally eat dairy but I ate dairy in Israel and I was just like totally tolerating it with no digestive complaints at all and so I started learning about how fasting affects my artisan tolerance well I just started learning about how it modulates microbiome so fasting I mean like I’m this is a lot of this is preliminary animal studies but there’s evidence to suggest that fasting actually improves the health of your microbiome in a pretty significant way and first of all you’re not exposing your gut to food for a while so it’s giving some time to heal if you have any problems second of all probably reducing processed carbs which fosters a seraph warm microbiome bacteria that’s not sure out the wall yeah I mean like I think everyone would benefit from from just like not eating as much sugar and breakfast many carbs but at the same time like I read this study in SOL recently that it was their seller nature to change dieting habits, but basically they took two animals two sets of animals one they gave ad libitum feeding so whatever they wanted and the other one they basically fasted every other day and then they took another group of mice that were that were bred without a microbiome and they transplanted the microbiomes of both groups into two sets of these new mice and they found that the same clinical endpoints the same reductions in cardiovascular endpoints like hyper like on high cholesterol like glucose metabolism abnormalities they found the same effects in the mice with in with the transplants that were the every other day fasted mice and then the mice that were eating whatever they wanted which had the worsen endpoints with that high cholesterol they had gained weight they all these bad things that happened to them through mice that got those micro biomes had the exact same thing happened to that so I think that um like one of the big questions that’s coming coming from all this to me is like are we gonna be able to develop therapeutics based on the micro biomes of people who are fasting that we can just give to people through pills and maybe give them the benefits of fasting without having to actually do the fast that’s interesting I mean I think there’s a probably so many targets of how fasting it works right like I think it affects micro bomb obviously sure exit Apogee right there’s something with just a core metabolism but that’s an interesting end point of fasting yeah I do micro biome and there’s reminds me of a conversation I’ve had recently with a French is Isaiah who literally fecal transplanted himself oh so he who was because oh he he had a friend with Mike apparently really good GI and he hits he’s been struggling with GI issues through his life and he literally like purified the of this friend how did he do that okay what did he do to it I think you just like capsulize though no this is the thing like I I actually had on this guy yeah what did he take antibiotics yeah you took a full antibody plus Troy isn’t very good microbiome whoa and transplanted until they matched it successfully matches and then what happened after that I saw like this yes great that’s amazing so this the craziest thing about this whole world of microbiome transplants is what’s really depressing about it is that it’s actually incredibly hard and very very challenging to get a microbiome transplant from a doctor yeah like I just read a year for one of my clients trying to get her on microbiome transplant and it finally finally we got it done but it’s what I would have to contact first of all you have to have like a team of doctors okay you have to have a poop sample from a lab that’s allowed the clinic like you have to clinically like contact a lab that had collects poop samples essentially and you have to call it basically develop a relationship with them to get that sample sent to the doctors who will then insert it through colonoscopy if you have Crohn’s disease there’s there’s argue argue and stuff like which way you would want to get it and started and so in this patients case they wanted to do it through the colonoscopy mostly because that’s only where the insurance would pay for it like they wouldn’t pay for it any other way so she had to go to the hospital be sedated and have this inserted into her yeah and it to me it’s just like really did it like why why would have to take that much time and effort like if this is something that somebody can just do at home you know he’s a pretty experienced bio hacker but yeah I mean your risks for sure you didn’t get your you need to get like we actually tested her partners stool and because we wanted to see like maybe it would be easiest just to get it from him right he had the exact same makeup as she did because they lived together it makes us which is so fascinating as well always some are diet exactly yeah yeah was interesting was that you were basically doing a pilot study on yourself of how fast the effects gluten intolerance with female hormones right yeah so I’m not you Chris what I was looking at is more information on this boy I think it’s an interesting topic that I think is important topic because most of the fasting studies are done in men as you’re referencing and only just for fastening just most clinical sites are done on men yeah and like American Western men period just think it’s like there’s less variables and there I don’t know for whatever reasons is easier population the sample from dieting plans to lose weight and I think hopefully in the future we can affect that and and have a more diverse population from which to run clinical trials but it’s a different coverage to be had sure um I think what I think was interesting was that there is some confusion around woman in fasting and like how much does urine hormone levels correlates of blood serum levels Jones I imagine there’s obvious some inhalation there there I I so I moved to urine hormone testing for convenience mostly because um and also because I really like this company called precision form up recession elements most functional doctors that I really really trust are using precision hormones or zrt labs to do really convenient home your in testing and hormone testing and so they correlate pretty well and I mean the the key is is like do you trust the company are they giving you information that’s actionable and like they’re good customer service in case you have questions and so um like I still do blood testing and because it’s the standard yeah but then on top of that for the it’s really hard to do blood testing for the the menstrual rhythm and so because of that it’s just easier to pee on a piece of paper and try it and to send it in yeah but I think they correlate very well now the interesting thing was is over the last month when I said basically as two months I started to ramp up ever since that keto experiment I started ramping up fasting yeah and this last month like for the previous month my cycle was like shorter than it’s ever been right and so that was interesting right and I don’t know if that was it like if that came from the fact that I was traveling a lot which is stressful you know or but usually when I’m stressed out my cycle is longer so I was kind of like what is this about and in the second time the second this last month uh I was wearing a glucose monitor and like the previous month my glucose monitoring was like pretty darn normal the entire time his last fast that I did I did to three day fast two weeks in a row that might have been too much for my system to handle and it was during my luteal phase so my right before my period and this last week when I was wearing my continues class monitor I said on a retreat right maybe not the optimal place to get refeeding because like I basically had all the access to food the people were making us and I broke some of my big rolls right so I’m going from here I’m going from like ketosis and natural metabolism boosters to like ad libitum eating rate and like notches us then like easy to make I didn’t eat pasta but we I definitely we definitely made like pumpkin pancakes with with brown rice flour which I never eat flour of any kind unless it’s like nut flours and that’s even still very rare right and and then um and then like I hadn’t checked my glucose monitor until the next day and so I’m actually what a night first eat I think I have some like tortilla chips and some granola and like some salad and some like so whatever was laying around I was just like should go was so my shirt went so I first of all you’re not supposed to go from ketosis to carbs like that your body doesn’t want to do that because you’re physiologically insulin resistant right yeah so I hadn’t been paying attention to my glucose monitor and I also was a slightly stressed from the drive I’d worked for hours on the drive and then I it was an unconference and so I started giving a lecture on fasting right after this ever after after eating yeah and so the next day after breakfast when I had those pancakes that I made which were by the way amazing but like I never do that I never eat pancakes with like reps or a rice flour um I looked at my monitor and I’m like oh my god this is bad 1:58 okay so it was a 187 after these pancakes I went outside did three did thirty minutes of yoga dropped it to 107 in 30 minutes we just come on back so above 125 fastest is considered type-2 diabetic fasting but I wasn’t fasting or anyway post pretty pretty a 1 140 generally is considered to be like but that’s how I Lauren’s test which I basically had done yeah but I was hovering around like you know pre-diabetes range for diabetes right like one of these sounds real hi but like the cool thing was is that I caught it yeah I was only thirty minutes of an exposure and I basically dropped it 80 points from yoga yeah and I’d measured it from my finger prick as well just make sure that it was accurate because I when you see a glucose monitor you have to understand that Lucas founders are imperfect yeah and so oftentimes I’ll see it like a spike after a good carb after fasting and then I’ll be like oh it’ll check it with my finger stick and double check to make sure that’s not abnormal and I’ve seen changes as much as like 30 points differences yeah so I was like okay is this as high as it I think it is and because I saw it because I acted on it I was like great I know I now know that like pumpkin rice flour is not optimal plus honey like not good for my metabolism especially not good at stopping food cravings but um I think the thing I learned from this experience is that like you know you we need to be we need to be vigilant about our blood sugars and these experiments that we’re doing especially if you’re a woman and you’re challenging your body’s physiology especially around times like for your there are hormonal differences going on um you know that’s why I’m a big fan of continuous glucose monitoring because like without knowing that I could days like if you like I was listening to some your friend he’s a big faster and I was looking at her Instagram and I’m looking at her her diet in what she eats on feasting days yeah and she’s eating a lot of refined carbohydrates and like she’s she’s maintaining a healthy weight right but I’m dying to see what her blood sugar looks like I’m just dying because like I know I want to know like is it healthy or is it not and like feeding and fasting I think is like what were designed to be doing as in terms of a carbs diet but the question is is fast as feeding on feasting on what it’s certainly not feasting on refined carbs and sugar right like maybe on special occasions but on a day to day basis like it could be detrimental to our metabolism to be challenging our metabolism with these types of behaviors yeah I think you bring up an interesting point that I think is not super well understood which is that insulin resistance actually increases after a fast hmm which is like counterintuitive but in some sense but it kind of makes sense that your body’s not used to so easily decreases but you can get insulin resistant because your brain is saying if there is sugar in my body it’s coming to me first right and so it’s really just um it your brain is doing this on purpose – hi fatty acids which is which is like opposing to insulin right yeah um it would make sense that you but I mean you’re 85 by the way when your body breaks down fat triglycerides when your body’s breaking down you know glycogen you know initially it’s it’s producing carbohydrates from that but them and then eventually you’re you’re in ketosis and your brain is still craving sugar so if there’s any sugar in your body from any place that’s going to your brain and you’re in your peripheral tissues are basically like trying to protect your brain yeah and so it’s not a bad thing yeah and I think that there are people there’s like certainly the hike high carb low fat people who believe that fats fats are bad and fats cause insulin resistance and you’re all getting we’re all gonna die I’m a big believer that like we should just understand what our body is trying to do in order to keep us alive and and also like with respect to that be careful with how we experiment ya know I think you also um under Lenox I think it being a really good point so it’s the brain needs sugar and when you are in a ketogenic state it’s basically showing as much of the remaining glucose to your brain yeah as opposed to just giving to your muscle and your muscles are running out of a fact alright just why people see weight management or weight loss goals off of you to keep the junk back right. I think it’s like interesting it’s important way to look at it yeah we get that’s a short-term insulin resistance so your boss aren’t updated at this on sugar yeah and your body’s like have a few hours right but that that initial shock and have high glucose for an extended period of time sure yeah I mean I think that the I didn’t get another topic that used to be talked about is like I’ve gotten a lot of people messaging me on Instagram who are bodybuilders who experimented with ketosis and some of them some of the men in particular have said I I started doing keto for many months while doing a really heavy lifting regimen and I totally screwed up my hormones so it’s not just women like this is happening to men as well and so sense like the testosterone testosterone if I were hormones adrenal hormones like basically like I think different hormonal systems can be thrown off from just too much famine like if you put your body in a family you think about like a really lean really muscular looking party builder like their body fat is so low that their body’s like I’m in if that’s the weakest state of their life it’s yeah it’s not healthy and you might look really cool and you may look really shredded but like we need to actually ask ourselves like what is really optimal for longevity and what’s and I don’t know enough Studies on bodybuilding to know like do they live longer do they live shorter you know what what is the benefit to this long-term besides aesthetics yeah that’s a good point so I do know when people are bodybuilding they’re cutting so much water weight about miss before the competition and often times they say that the litter the weakest they’ve been yeah our training site yeah I think it’s an interesting competition run the role of lean muscle tissue for glucose sure another area that I think hasn’t been discussed as much where yeah I think a lot of people associate lean muscle tissue as correlated for longevity and I think people think about that in the sense of oh you have more muscle you’re gonna have like less prone to injury I think less well understood point of that is that besides your liver mm-hmm your muscles are horse you can store glucose yeah okay so this is really important let’s talk about what muscle you can store more glucose so one of the things that most people don’t understand about pre-diabetes that I think is like I want to hammer into the world because the science is there is that there’s two types of pre-diabetes you can have actually technically three um there’s impaired fasting glucose as impaired glucose tolerance and then there’s people who have both okay right if you have impaired fasting glucose you have hepatic insulin resistance right if you have impaired glucose tolerance you have impaired skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity so if you have both then you’re kind of screwed so yeah let’s drill into it so to explain first yeah your muscles are a sink for glucose to go after meals right and then when you’re when your muscles fill up with glucose and there’s no and there’s no more space left for glycogen you start taking that extra glucose and you start taking the triglycerides and you make you basically make fat right like you know will like what Jonas exactly favorite phrase exactly so whenever you have extra glue this thing around you right says okay cool I’m gonna store it I’m gonna and then oftentimes um if you do this consistently you get fatty liver right so if you fast what you’re doing is your first and foremost eliminating the glycogen in your liver right when you exercise you’re eliminating the glycogen in both of your liver and your muscles so you’re producing an insulin sync I’m sorry you’re producing a glucose sync and you’re also improving insulin sensitivity with with exercise and so I think because you want to restore yeah exactly the body your muscles want to uptake exact like one of the best things you can do if your fasting is also continuing to exercise one of the worst things you can do if your fasting is stay sedentary um one of the problems the fasting is that it does kind of send the signal much signal to your body that like you don’t want to move as much because you know as much you all gray but I have found that um so so doing all these experiments fasting like it makes sense that I drop into ketosis faster when I’m exercising but I’ve also noticed that like I actually get sometimes I get even better performance when I’m fasted which is kind of interesting a Jewish Tonga yoga and it’s not easy but like I feel I feel like I’m more focused and I feel like I’ve got more catecholamines in my body because I’m because like I do right and that gives me a little bit extra fuel to like really push into my exercise and its aerobic not doing an aerobic like you know you’re lifting your body with body weight but you’re also doing a lot of breathing so it is both um like you’re doing a lot of you’re probably not going like a much above like 120-140 heart rate right like I don’t not not too much it really depends on like there are handstands that I’m doing sometimes where like you know I’m lifting my whole body up in my head and then arm stands like those can be those can be kind of trying is nowhere near is squatting like 300 pounds yeah exactly exactly um but I I do think that most people when when trying to hack pre-diabetes and diabetes like a lot of doctors are like just focus on food and food it’s important but you also you know exercise does really improve insulin sensitivity yeah and so and also and also just like muscle mass turns out I was ready I was reading a study it was either think it was on human I think I’ve read studies on both humans and animals but extended day fasting can improve growth hormone secretion in both humans and animals which also can improve your ma your body composition yeah and one of the weirdest things I’ve noticed from fasting is that even though I regain a lot of the weight that I lose when I start refeeding I feel leaner overall and so I do feel like it’s changing my body composition which is kind of cool you should get DEXA scan so that Isis can before I started doing all this so I’m gonna do another one in one more month after three months of all this yeah and yeah that’s basically what I did so I did a three month period of weekly 36-hour fast and then like an excited a seven day fast and it been between there as well one weekly 36-hour yeah what’s a weekly 36-hour and then yeah middle was a seven-day straight water fast oh wow aggressive yeah kind of a Phil Libin style yes and I had lost 2% of body fat percentage and gained like one or two pounds of lean muscle tissue Wow just like a nice combination yeah you get leaner and you became my muscle it’s just funny though cuz everyone’s like you’re gonna lose so much muscle you’re gonna lose all your muscle if that’s taken I’m like no you’re not actually in fact you might gain muscle and lose if you can’t work out if you work you have to work out that that’s the most anabolic thing there is like yeah you don’t like eat and build muscle you have to work out and of course eat the game yeah exactly totally I mean that’s the thing I try to tell people it’s like it but they also the interesting thing is like to build if you want to build like muscle like a bodybuilder you actually do need a decent amount of insulin because you need a growth growth stimulus yeah um but if you try to lose body fat and gain muscle and just get leaner then fasting and exercise is great I mean you’re a great example of this I mean just seeing you over the course of two years like you’ve gotten way leaner and it’s awesome to see like your entire team like you guys are super lean people yeah I know it’s been a fun journey just to sort of take what we experiment with you know actually works I mean I think we’re just actually impaired assistance yeah this in some way yeah like if fasting didn’t work for us then we wouldn’t do it like if I just like I don’t think we’re dogmatic here know maybe find out tomorrow that fast it’ll kill us I would be like let’s not do that okay so another thing we should talk about is like the different types of fasting that I’ve personally done with different assistant aides so I did my first three day fast with just tea and coffee with no cream err just mostly I was drinking a lot of long tea and because I was just like kind of going nuts a little bit cuz I was like oh my god no food this is a this is a lot of day a lot of days they some fun it’s all about tea and fast he nailed it like my ketone levels skyrocketed after one like one day mostly I think because I was drinking so much teens so baby day two I was at like ketones a 4.4 okay so that like you typically would see that after a few days yeah but it was waste fed up from just drinking tons of tea yeah I discovered this like milk long tea which is like amazingly good tasting and then also this like poo air from rainbow market that like I’m obsessed with so like I’m really into teas these days the only concern I have about teas is my doctor told me that caffeine is not great for female hormones interesting so I’m like I can’t give it up though I literally have a that sighs I didn’t know about that I mean this this is something I’ve been reading more and more about like how strong is that it’s pretty I think it’s a fairly strong association however I’m gonna do more like I’m gonna do more deep research before I come to a conclusion because I’ve always I’ve always been a caffeine drinker and I just how many women do I see just walking off Starbucks all day yeah exactly yeah so the question is is what’s the dose and then the other the only thing I did was a fat fast because I was like oh his complete guide to fasting says I can have fat for her fast and I wasn’t very much it was like maybe 150 to 200 calories a day okay and I have to say tea aisle or butter it was coconut oil ghee um maybe why are two nuts um definitely nothing crazy right but I have to say that that was a far harder fast to do huh I I think that when you give your body any type of calories it’s it’s just like wait what you’re just giving me 200 like that’s it yeah I saw my body was just like nope so I hated that fast I was like the worst fast I was not happy that’s cuz it’s with my experience too if you’re gonna eat then your body just like specs to actually have a real meal yeah like are you really gonna die over 200 calories yes like if you’re not fat just fast okay and then I did a one of my previous 24 hour fastest when I was traveling to Israel with the ketone esters and I’m sitting on Turkish Airways in business class because I decided beforehand I was gonna upgrade because I was like I deserve this and didn’t did not realize how good their food was going to look they had a chef on the flight and there was like food going back the international business is great oh my god was ridiculous and here’s the thing the guy sitting next to me is like this head of GE of Saudi Arabia rightness it’s these sitting there was like eating everything I’m watching me prick my fingers test my ketones shrank human ketone Esther’s prick my finger again he’s like what are you doing you sick cool are you and Izzy what her version are you and I’m just like oh I’m doing all his metabolism research and we started getting into like talking about why Saudi Arabia is just suffering so much from diabetes and he was like you’re like in the future he’s like here literally from the future he’s like this is where things are gonna have to go because we’re really getting like our country’s getting super sick no and and I was like yeah the problem is is that like the solution is fasting and most people don’t want a fast he’s like no we’re fasting for Ramadan like we’re used to fasting like he’s like you just kind of tie in the cultural aspect of it and make it more of like you know you gotta figure out how to get people to think about it from like that perspective as well which i think is really smart but um I I found that that like international travel with ketones really really different experience than just regular fasting like first of all the first time I did I I was actually in your office’s the first time I tried your ketones when I was doing a 16 hour fast right I had a pretty decent like ketone level I think was like 0.8 or something and I was just like what is this stuff what am I gonna be drinking what is this like drank your Keita and I remember thinking this I feel like of a video game character and I’m getting a new life like I felt my legs kind of tingling and I just felt like I had all this energy that was just like well it kind of like going for my feet to my head and this keeps not happening every time I do a fast with Keith Danza it’s like I get this tingly feeling in my feet like you’re getting another life now and it really does provide a sense of like you know part of it is I think psychology because like I know that I have fuel but the politic part of his physiology like my body is getting a boost of ketones that frankly like makes it easier to just and like go into that state and I think for a lot of people who aren’t fat adapted yet this might be the one of the few solutions that could actually help people learn too fast more efficiently like my personal believe is that you need to really think about that adaptation before jumping in a fasting but with this I’m I’m really curious to know like with this toll can we get people to that state of fasting faster and maybe can they use fasting to get fat fat adapted maybe they won’t have to use kids genic deity I don’t know yeah no I think that’s a good point and I think as something that we’re exploring obviously a lot of our customers are violates and performance use case but I would say that maybe twenty to thirty percent of our customers are using it for a fasting tool for metabolic health yeah right I think your what you’re describing is that when people aren’t fed at depth didn’t you have low sugar any look units at the same time and then you feel like shit shit you say your body’s like I like we need to eat something so yeah we were freaking out but if you get that ketone though right right equipment like ten days of fasting in like 30 minutes yeah so this was me when I first started fasting right I would get hangry I would be irritable I would feel low-energy and then through you know basically when I was in your office as a few months ago I was like you were like you just kind of stick with it and just keep fasting and just try it yeah cuz you’re gonna get it’s gonna get easier and I was like I really hope you’re right and then it did and then the next thing I knew every week I was like I can do more I can do more than this and then to two weeks of three days and I was like okay I think I can do a little less but the fact that like it’s now something that I can just be like oh if I need to fast I’m gonna fast and it’s no longer like a thing that I worry about like it’s no longer even a question of can I do it that to me like the the coolest thing that I have found is the heart rate variability improvements have you heard about this work okay so I mean I noticed I’m wearing oil ring yeah so I actually do see if I’m eating earlier so basically have a longer window before sleeping yeah my heart rate variability is higher hi my resting heart rate is lower yeah it’s like a more optimal heart okay so I’ve been finding all this research on how fasting improves heart rate rate for heart rate variability yeah and I did I put this to the test because I started fasting and I I spent this this year at the beginning of the year setting all my New Year’s resolutions and I set like tons of them and I usually get more than half of them every year it’s like really fun to challenge yourself to in every aspect of your life but in terms of my own like emotional health I wanted to be I wanted to be more even killed under stress I wanted to figure out like how do I maintain balance despite a bigger workload because I knew I was gonna be doing a lot more things than I was last year this year I would just I had a feeling this year is gonna be a year of a lot of action and it has been and the craziest thing I’ve noticed through fasting is how I do feel like I can handle more stress and and just remain calm and I was traveling from Israel to Lebanon which you’re not supposed to do because they are not friends right and I I was like well I’m gonna do that juice anyway because I’m I’m Jewish but I’m all celebrities and I’m like no one’s gonna stop me so I go to they’re gonna like Tel Aviv and then I go to Cyprus and then I go to Lebanon and I get to Lebanon’s border and I think I’m already I’m like oh yeah homestretch I’m gonna get in and the guy turns my passport over ATC is really path he sees not the stamp they sticker you and in Israel most people don’t realize this but these stickers have meaning behind them they rank your level of Zionism and it’s their stickers their own security stickers for when you come back to Israel oh yeah so I didn’t know what number I was but I was kind of like I’d ripped off my previous sticker that I just gotten and but the one that was from before it was looking two years ago yeah and it was only half of a sticker for the hungry mouth I was like I guess I could just leave it right big mistake guy says come with me and I was like super hot and design ISM ranking well no no this was Lebanon just knew that I was in Tel Aviv oh no not allowed to go from Israel to Lebanon okay big no-no okay and I was like oh they’ll never know I don’t get stamped in Israel yeah so I went to this back room and there’s people that are arguing with these border patrol guards like you can’t get this out of the country but I’m sitting there just like smiling and my turn my turn my app on my phone my breathe app on my Apple watch I start breathing deeply and I’m just like chatting up the people I’m like yeah I was everything Israel like two years ago and they’re kissing I needed a good story cuz I was gonna be like yeah I was there like two hours ago or two days ago um and I and the guys I go look my last name’s Maloof I’m Lebanese my dad’s Lebanese my grandfather’s Lebanese like I’m just I really want to see the country that’s why I’m here and I was in the layover before right and that’s why I got that sticker and he’s like and I was just really calm the whole time and then he takes me to another room and the other room was like there’s a guy in a jail cell there’s a guy at a desk he’s smoking a cigarette no and there’s no windows and his flutterfly fluorescently lit and I’m just sitting there like oh shit and he’s like okay we need to take your statement for the military court and I’m like shed my going to jail and I just tell them my story which you know I’m not a big believer in lying but if you really like if you’re in a situation like I’m in like I think his excuse he was about excusable and so III go look I was in a that was this was actually a true story I wasn’t Athens a few years ago I did do I did have a layover in Tel Aviv I showed him my stamp so I was like I was this is when I was there and so he takes my statement and the guy barely speaks English and he’s using like copy paper and they don’t even have computers it’s like literally like he’s handwriting it out he faxes it to the military court read these fax machines and I realized about halfway through this experience that like the guy was on my side because I was I look Lebanese my last name sounds Lebanese my story you know worked out but I’m like sitting there for hours and typically like I think most people would have been kind of uncomfortable you know and I’m just like I just like took the whole experience is like you know what this is gonna be fine regardless of what happens I’m gonna be fine if I have to go home great I’ll go to another country like Americans talk about like diskant don’t in one of the cells well they left a guy out of the jail song which was like made me feel better yeah he was from Paraguay apparently and I didn’t know what history I really didn’t understand why they were holding him but about three and a half hours into this experience we get a call and they’re like you can go now and I’m like what do you mean I can go they’re like yeah you’re free to go I’m like yes and I just have the best high of my life I got it got into Beirut I had the best time but like I learned a lot about you know um well I can’t remain calm and I honestly think that like this wasn’t this would never have been me a year ago I would never have been this calm under pressure and I and the only the biggest change in my life over the last two months was literally fasting and so I really do contribute I really believe that this is contributed to like a greater improvement in my heart rate variability than anything else like it’s pretty it’s pretty astonishing yeah I think part of it I think from my perspective is that it also practices discipline right like I have mastery over your own bodies desires in some sense yeah like like eating is very pleasurable that’s what I just noticed you know through the fasting experience I’d a lot of times when you eat it’s like for fun not for actually for heroism or for because it’s not something smells good or because like people miss people don’t really understand hunger right and really true hunger is something that comes in waves throughout the day with ghrelin curves right so you get a few growling curse throughout the day and most hunger is actually just people who are constantly writing the glycemic response curve and they’re constantly spiking and dropping their blood sugar and so they’re getting low low blood sugars they’re getting insulin spikes insulin makes you hungry you know so if you’re constantly pulsing insulin throughout the day with sugar you’re getting hungrier because you’re eating food that is making you hungrier right and on top of that we get thousands of messages of food all day long to eat and that activates the dopaminergic systems in our brain the hedonism pathways the pleasure pathway is through it the wanting and the liking of food and that can make you think you’re hungry even though you’re really just you just want the food or you just like the way food tastes right and this is why when you’re eating a multi-course meal you’re easy you’re able to easily eat more food because of different foods tasting good continues to activate that pathway and so it’s not that you actually necessarily have room for all this food it’s that it’s a novel experience right and then there’s also like the emotional hunger that most people are suffering from in our country because a lot of people are suffering from chronic loneliness and people are using food as medication because carbohydrates activate serotonin and that makes you feel better for a lot it for a lot of people I think they’re they’re consuming carbs because you know their their cortisol might be too high that makes you crave carbs or they’re just chronically depressed and they want to medicate and and really like one of the things that I’ve been trying to understand more is like what’s true hunger what am I really what am I really hungry right and also when you’re really hungry and you’re fasting and you learn to to handle that wave and you realize that it’s not a tidal wave it’s just a breaker you’re like oh my god I’m a superhero like I can handle anything like I can I can be under a state of true hunger and be okay and and to me like that’s an ultimately adapted human is like I could be anywhere in the world without food for a week if I needed to and I would be fine yeah and that that’s actually where we want to get people to go but most people couldn’t be without food for a few hours without falling order so they think well that’s the thing yeah so they think I mean that was me even a year ago it’s like it maybe not a year ago but like two years ago for sure yeah you know I definitely we could get hangry I definitely would feel a little but you’re gonna be like oh my god I’m in survival mode and you have to flip that brain switch and realize you’re gonna be fine and also you’ve got enough food to eat because you have fat in your body right and you’re eating you that fat when you’re fasting you know one thing I thought was interesting was the benefits of having some insulin for bodybuilding or just for exercise I think that it’s easy in a discussion like this to go super polar again so no arms like carbs or evil and all of that and it’s like you know I think it’s pretty well it’s up there you probably don’t need eat refined sugar like you couldn’t probably remove that but there’s a role for carpets especially for oh my god exercise I told you should talk about that I mean I think it’s like we should find this yeah I think there’s like a nuance here I feel like you don’t get any attention if you’re not just like crazy polar okay so the political system is happening with like nutrition as well these days I feel great company called meta flow that I’m I may or may not start doing some work with them haven’t yet but I’ve just been using their device as a beta tester and what they do is they measure your respiratory quotient and I might have mentioned this in the previous Podcast but I’ve started to use them more and what it does is it measures the summer yes so it blows snow you blow into this device and you blow an oxygen right and then it can we explain our Cuba yeah so our Q is kind of tricky to explain but basically the percentage of carbohydrates and fat that you are burning is can be determined by the difference in they it’s a difference in carbon dioxide blow-off that you that you create like the difference in the oxygen you you blow into the device and the carbon tax if you blow out and the that ratio of I think I’m like bastardizing this is terrible I did a really good job on their video about scientist but fundamentally like you have two sources of fuel that you can burn you can burn fats or carbs and that Peart that the percentage that you’re burning of fats or carbs is your brush with right portion and trays so closer to one is car burning ratio is 0.7 it’s fat burn exactly so this device can can tell by the carbon dioxide blow off how much you are actually burning yeah so what’s nice about this is that it’s really a tool for assessing your metabolic flexibility which is really like how easily do you convert back and forth between carb rating and pepperoni yeah and what they’ve noticed in their program is like what they’ll do is they’ll cycle carbohydrate consumption with like higher carb with Laura card and they’re having what people lose pretty significant weight loss like 15 to 20 pounds weight loss went from just using this device and just modulating carbohydrates and I think that you know obviously I’m I’m waiting to see like they’re the total numbers of what what their success stories are and I’m also just like I have a lot of research to do in the space to really before I totally convert over to like this is the future but I think it’s it’s I think having it you know having a glucose monitor is a presets pre cellular tool for analyzing your fuel stores it’s like what’s in your bloodstream right but then post sale at cellular is a respiratory question it’s like what have you already metabolized and I think both of these together is a pretty magical combination because now we’re starting to get real-time fuel store analysis and that’s pretty astonishing yeah those are human inch I’ve been meaning to get that done I know yeah that’s interesting you can have it in a device they know that typically today you are doing like vo2 max times I mean literally wearing a reaper oh yeah I’m like getting this analyzed right let’s cool it they’ve come up with such a small seemingly yeah I mean really the sensors are just gotten cheaper yeah they’ve gone from hundreds of dollars to like tens of dollars and so because of that they can make it something more scalable yeah so I think one of the early early pilots of ketone s-sir showed that your RQ is more efficient while using ketone ester versus other substrates this is one of the starting yeah and so was that like blue let down to the development of the Kiko nest oh my god Wow because if you actually think about there’s why is the ratio of closer to one when you’re learning carbs it’s like carp carbohydrates are more oxidized there’s more oxygens in a carbon molecule versus a tee has a chain yes right and ketones look more like a fatty acid chain than a carbon molecule right so it’s an interesting substrate to be more efficient for metabolism right and and the thing about um I think human health and adaptation this is this concept of like being able to adapt and self manage being metabolically flexible I think is a marker of a healthy human and there’s a great paper there’s I’ll set it to you and it’s called flipping the metabolic switch and why this is important for health span and life span and really they belief is that the more often you can go between car burning and then also depleting your glycogen reserves like that in itself is a is like really good for your metabolism long term and it may be that being sustained in a katatak fat-burning state isn’t good long term it may be that that is damaging to hormones if you do it too much right and maybe that we’re supposed to go back and forth right or maybe we’re I mean like or it’s possible that like seasonally we’re supposed to eat differently I mean there’s so much we need to learn about like what makes for the healthiest lifestyle possible but I think it makes intuitive sense and also there’s a lot of papers on this now that say that we should be tapping into our own fat stores more often we should not be burning carbs consistently and that’s what most people are doing and it’s not surprising that most people have too much blood sugar in their bloodstream yeah I mean I would respond by saying that I think sustained keto is likely to be just given out all the longitudinals at least on keto but I always say that I think it is open as you’re saying that it’s not necessary optimal like I think I think there’s a there’s a pointer on cyclical you know right no I think that’s something that I’ve been incorporating yeah I know it’s from like exercise perspective like if you if you are just eating key to your stuff now that burst energy and like ball of the elite athletes that we work with they might train ketonic Li to make be more metabolically flexible yeah but do either like the Olympic Trials or the games did getting a full fuel selection well let’s think about that right so if you think about I always like use the candle of kindling analogy but if you have a bunch of kindling and you light it on fire it burns real fast it’s like you’re you you want that kindling in your body you want that glycogen so you can burn it so you can run so you can produce power energy like our bodies are not that like they’re so complicated but they’re not right now what you know like we don’t like to make ketones it’s kind of like a little bit of rocket fuel right like that’s cool you can pour a little bit of extra fuel onto a body and say I’m gonna have this like extra fuel stores but most of us you know like just using our own fat stores for Olympic trial that’s really that’s like burning a candle it’s not gonna burn fast you want to have that fast burning fuel for for power and what I’m trying to figure out right now is I did deep into fitness on continuous glucose monitoring is how do we use the glucose monitoring tool to optimize human human performance in athletics and right now I’m getting so much my evidence from type ones because they’re the ones who’ve been monitoring this longest but I don’t have enough research from people who are healthy and so you know like we’re gonna have to start doing some studies eventually on that yeah that reminded me of point I wanted to bring up which is that the metabolic flexibility point so there’s been good success where diabetics are going on keto and then reversing their blood sugar and reducing their insulin but yeah eat less medication but I think there is a good interesting open question around have they really reversed diabetes or secured diabetes or they just manage the symptoms this is a good right like as I said like yeah the less tried to like re feed them carbs right right like it sounds like you have do I seem in control like except for after a after fast-fast when I what I didn’t yeah you know like there is evidence that shows that after some for some women who have already normal glycemic control if you do fast them there can be abnormal glucose tolerance after it but here’s the thing does that mean I’m permanently have abnormal LucasArts or was that a temporary state now let’s get back to diabetes I think a lot of people focus so much on these clinical endpoints and measurements and less about the big picture of what’s really going wrong with this person’s health and diabetes is not just a disease of too much blood sugar it’s a disease of a person who is not adapting to the environment that they’re living in and by not adapting to the environment I mean they’re not getting enough sunlight they’re not getting enough nature exposure they’re not getting enough fresh air there’s getting way too much pollution they’re getting the wrong packaged processed foods in their bodies right there and oftentimes like not getting enough family and community time and there’s a lot of reasons why all of these things contribute to abnormal blood sugar like to me after blood sugar is just an endpoint that’s showing a person is breaking down and it’s like yes you can treat the symptoms you can treat the problem under like you can treat the insulin resistance you can treat them the high blood sugar but it’s not fixing the societal issues that are contributing to people’s health getting you know disordered and I think the same thing can be said about not eating, and hypertension and hypercholesterolemia like these are just these are just markers of an unhealthy person and these are markers that that that show that you can be predisposed to pathology but it’s like let’s look at the big picture of society and say where are people thriving without any of these problems and what’s different about their lifestyles and frankly like a lot of it has to do with how people live their lifestyles are like I think you eventually everyone’s picked introversion beot we all need to build like a giant culture company oh yeah yeah it’s basically like yeah we’re all trying to do it and our various channels right yeah you’ve mentioned cholesterol have you been folding the LDL HDL oh my god yeah let’s ride story okay okay so I guess many I’d be curious about him become like a mature lipid ologist but oh curiously keager yeah on that whole story around health high LDL might not necessarily be Bryce biomarker well okay so here’s get your thoughts on I think I don’t know if I mentioned this to you I don’t know if I I don’t think this is on the last podcast but as I was digging into diabetes treatments from nutritional treatments I came across a high carb low fat group and a low carb high fat group right well let’s not name these groups but you know who they are what am I was in San Diego what it was in San Francisco and I was looking at their numbers and their outcomes and I was like oh my god both groups are seeing the same drop and he looked hemoglobin a1c and both groups are seeing the same drop in weight in the course of a year and I’m like what’s going on here okay like how is this possible but then I said to myself okay okay let’s see the literature says about both these types of diets and what really what changes in terms of blood markers that are problematic that they weren’t reporting well typically what you see in the high carb low fat group is they elevate their triglycerides typically what you see in some people in the high fat low carb group is you do see some people get high LDL and I’m one of those people um needs to actually be a deal raises my LDL goes up the question is is like you know both of those are considered to be bad and when it’s according to the American College of Cardiology Association but should we be worried about them right um my personal belief is that this is just first principles at work right like they’re like I put I have I am an apoe4 genie like a few genes that predispose me to being at risk for high cholesterol if I eat lots and lots of saturated fat the apoe4 fellas yeah exactly and you basically anyone with an apoe4 needs to be careful about too many refined carbs in too much saturated fat I don’t take brain hits it’s thank God I have many professions yeah um but um but like I haven’t experimented yet with the high carb low fat diet I’m terrified of doing it but I also kind of think it’d be fun to just eat vegetables and fruit for a month and see what happens to my body like I’ve never done it before but like what would happen what would I feel like who knows and what I really want to know about these two groups of people is who are the failures and what happened to those people like what’s going on with the people who failed keto and carnivore diet what’s going on with people who failed the carb diet and also maybe we need to meet somewhere in the middle and so what I’m proposing right now that we’re doing Sano we’re doing some internal studies where we’re taking people on regular diets giving them the continuous glucose monitors for a week just to see what happens by monitoring their food and then we’re gonna give them a plant-based diet with some protein mostly plant-based how many calories kick you out of fasting but with some protein diet from a very popular delivery company in the San Francisco area and we’re gonna see what happens when you take a person on like a normal type diet with standard American foods to Whole Foods because my theory is that part of what’s wrong with people’s diets is that they’re eating all this fake crappy food that’s like not contributing to a healthy healthy metabolism and then maybe what’s happening with these people with different macronutrient ratios is like they’re getting out Whole Foods right they’re getting out real foods and maybe that’s why everyone’s getting the same drop in England gomen a1c and hunt I think that’s like yeah I actually agree with that actually I think that a large contributing factor when people change to one of these corporate fad diets is that there’s probably eating healthier yeah they’re eating foods right now there are rules I think there is some interesting that’s something that I think is gonna be interesting that the beta and discuss you know or you know in the literature I think there’s clearly people that see success with high carb low fat mmm-hmm it’s clearly people that see success with the complete opposite yeah and it’s I like I think it’s cheap to be like no you’re lying or you’re guessing but take either side it’s like maybe there’s some genetic component to that that we don’t fully understand or maybe both of us could work well what I think is that is on your use case a healthy like the thing that I’m trying to constantly evolve my own perspectives around and what I’m trying to do to sort of separate myself from the pack is like how do we move away from just so like being so overly focused on clinical endpoints and so overly focused on on signaling pathways and start looking at the macro picture of humanity and saying like what would the most adapted evolved human look like right how are we gonna get to think because we’re going through a massive human evolution right now yeah like with is with technology with all this information with all these new tools that we have to advance our physiology in our lifestyles like how do we become a more evolved human in the future and what does that look like it to me it looks like how can I take whatever fuel supply available to me by the way my fuel I do not mean package process crap I mean fuel real food how do I take whatever foods available to me and metabolizing it effectively without having problems yeah and like to me that’s what I want to be I want to be able to go anywhere in the world eat for the most part any healthy whole food and not get sick no and actually metabolize it well and like that’s um that that’s me like a superpower you know and that’s what we all should be I think we should be striving for potentially now the only issue with that argument is that like the micro biomes of the food supply is all over the world do sometimes cause people to react differently so it would be really cool if I could just go to India eat whatever I wanted but I do have a feeling that like I might get sick still occasionally lesser potent hasn’t yet it’s you know like like we might I’d eat part of the part of these my Americans probably do get sick when they travel a lot is because we have very weak micro biomes because we’ve assaulted them with antibiotics for many many years and all these all the we know now that like a lot of these fake sugars and these preservatives are maladaptive to the microbiome by I would say the probiotic food the kimchi or Sarah fighting to getting more popular but hopefully my own yogurt I make my own um which I make my own vinegar now I make my own first of all eat at your place I mean one thing I thought was interesting was why isn’t there like full fat milk yogurts like know what like like everything you can get them yeah I see that sugar though that’s it like there’s so much sugar calling yogurt it’s like 20 grams of sugar right yeah I just find at Adam bite right by right market this sheep’s milk yogurt full fat that’s like amazing like totally delicious like over-the-top good creamy and just Incredibles to braise it at it digests kind of expensive but really good ya know I’m going back to your pointer on just being metabolically flexible to be able to consume any sort of fuel I think that’s actually I would actually a very much agree with that it reminds you is something that Jordan Peterson who you guys may have heard about yeah it speaks up he’s he’s interesting because he’s carnivore and oh really a keto he’s carnivore really his daughter who were those talking with she’s pretty public around having autoimmune issues okay and um basically resolved it with Carnac going car like you know they’re going carnivore Wow well so so here’s the thing like I I think that my question around all this is like what happens to your microbiome when you just eat meat like do you like how do you grow a healthy microbiome without fiber you know I think that council that’s this the counter-argument there would be well if you eat awful like that yeah oh yeah liver yeah me there should be a lot of nutrients in that yeah so you can balance it if you actually just you know if you just eat a hamburger meat or like sausages yeah you’re not getting that diversity within just protein you can’t really get enough vitamins and minerals but the question is is like are you going to grow like like a healthy microbiome typically likes fiber to make small change batty assets right and that feeds that mucosal layer right so I would be I would want to do is still study on these people and find out what is it what is it microbiome look like and yes maybe they’ve quelled the inflammation and reduced you know maybe some small bacterial intestinal overgrowth in or whatever but the real question is is like he’s that long-term healthy and like I would also want to measure Jordans ferritin levels because there is a there is a pretty significant correlation between high ferrets and levels and men at heart disease and so like look I’m because I’ve done so much research in nutrition and I am at the point where I really feel like nobody really truly understands what’s correct for humanity like I I will admit that the not sleepy spoke anymore that I learned the more that I don’t trust like anyone anyone but at the same time the more that I I’m striving to like think about the big picture and the reality is is that if you look at um Eskimos they’re eating a crap ton of animal foods right so I mean maybe if he’s eating healthy healthy yeah he’s evolved and he’s evolving to to consume this yeah and also like I dunno people um there’s a really great story about this guy who survived um he was like the sound engineer for the Grateful Dead he ended up getting esophageal cancer and living off of meat for like 15 years like us meat slurry he was like literally starving his cancer so you know like if people it can’t be done you can’t survive on this my question is this do you want to write like I personally love food so much but I’m also like if I cancer what would I try like when I go Gerson would I mean would I go carnivore I I’m a big believer that we’re gonna have an entire array of like diets for cancer in the future yeah for different types of cancer you know there’s so much to be thought about when it comes to different diets for therapy – yeah therapeutic Jordan because I think he has a saying around that the goal of life if for a meaning of life is not to just a win in a specific game but we have a strategy that wins to the set of all possible games I think oh that’s greatly instan when I think about like how do you want to carry out your life yes like so if I you know win this one little game that we play yeah and look but really making you feel bad yeah we’re never gonna play a game I got it again that’s where fasting is beautiful by the way because fasting wins in so many cases like fasting is a strategy that I think can help you Matt like I’ve noticed that since I started fasting I can eat a lot more of a diverse diet yeah and maintain the same way yeah I can actually tolerate a lot more foods and still like you know so I can have like a day where like I do cheat a little bit yeah and I can recover a lot faster like that’s to me a pretty great example of someone who’s like winning in different environments that’s the metabolic flexibility yeah right and I think that may be the solution is not just have a like a 30 30 30 macro but like just swing pull you know yeah I think it’s like moving around down to like high carb and then you know like is your metabolism wants to be surprised I think it’s expect I think it had historically been surprised quite a lot yeah with what with whatever was available right and so that we may still have that genetic makeup and that that could explain why a lot of people tend to do well when they shift their macronutrients around they see changes in their body composition right yeah I think that’s it so that means somebody am to be explored so I know that a lot of the cyclical work of cyclical Quito or at the buck Institute which is you know role work out a longevity Institute yeah doing that like cyclical Quito is just as good as normal he doesn’t I find that by the way I think they’re putting mice on two weeks of Quito and then two weeks of standard Western diet call and they were living longer than standard Western diet I think you sees very similar studies with like every other day fasting and animals or you know even extended fasts and animals like you just can live longer yeah and you know what I love about fasting is how my skin looks so great when I fast like I swear to God this this this thing called you’ve heard of autofluorescence we’re talking about this day yeah yeah um you can actually measure the light output of a person’s skin and that correlates to the level of advanced glycation end-products so the more advanced glycation end-products at your skin accumulates the older your skin looks more wrinkles you get because the more damage to the proteins in your skin the collagen elastin right and so what I’ve noticed is that with fasting I just start seeing my skin start glowing after a few days it’s pretty cool like I know I’m late becoming that I mean this crazy convert but I have to admit you guys are pretty much responsible for this film I think there’s some rhyme to that read that Maddon is incensed I like some people look healthier and maybe it’s a lot of fluorescence yeah I mean you’re also taking out the garbage of your cells you’re like up regulating all these anti-aging pathways oh my god the coolest thing I learned was listening to this podcast by Krista Tippett called on being okay she was interviewing a physicist theoretical physicist he was talking about how time is all relative when time doesn’t actually exist right but it’s the difference between variables and specifically heat and so one of these that he was saying is that basically like heat exchange over time he he exchanged over time kind of helps define time right like the fact that light weights with entropy yes exactly and so what I’m thinking is happening when you’re fasting is you’re actually just decreasing entropy because you’re reducing heat exchange and nobody would think about it actually it’s very simple visit physics right and we I’m really attracted to like beautiful elegant theories of science and I know I’m producing less heat when I’m fasting is I’m cold like I know when I’m cold and I know when I’m warm and I love how I love the feeling of understanding what’s going on so my body and I do think that like fasting is a way to like literally reverse the clock into your cells by just the change change in heat exchange that’s funny I did I didn’t think about from that should be sorry I think that’s bad that’s that’s a funny way to think about it yeah well maybe I’m wrong but it makes sense to me scientifically so I’m gonna go with it I think this is from Oh slowing of metabolism or then yeah but that I mean that in itself is reduces entropy yeah you know yeah so so we have one of the big things are like busy 2018 so far yeah so the last time we talked you were like I think at the end I remember listening to the podcast you’re like wait that’s is that all you’re gonna do and then after that pocket I was like I guess I should do more things this year so I’ve been so I’ve been working at sano a couple days a week I’ve been actually using a lot of the learnings that I’ve gotten from fasting and continuous glucose monitoring to sort of redesign my practice around and metabolic flexibility program which I’m continuing to work on and will hopefully roll out sometime this summer with like a beta test group where what we’ll be doing is we’ll be teaching people from like a first-hand experience with monitoring their blood sugar their ketones their respiratory question and and basically teaching people how to become metabolically flexible through different dietary changes as well as through fasting yeah so keto masters will certainly hopefully be a part of that because I think that getting people past that inflection point is really challenging yeah and then I have been working on developing a podcast myself so I hope to launch that in July and then I’ve been doing a little bit of what’s gonna be called I don’t know yet I don’t have a good one all right I need a name have you can help me think of a good name like that’s one of the things that’s keeping me from just from like fully pushing it out yet but um it’s gonna have to be it’s gonna have to be good I don’t know what it’s gonna be right now so if anyone has any good ideas please come to my in dr. Malik oh and give me your ideas cuz I need some and then um I done sent emali shell I mean I was thinking that dr. tamale show or like dr. Molly on and then dot dot or something because it’s gonna be different on different topics but um I have been doing some wellness travel excursions I went to Esalen Institute and taught a bunch of executives all about how to plan your life like a startup and how to really like create systems for setting goals for your year and really actualizing those goals and really just analyzing how can you make progress of improvement in your life over time I’ll be doing that again in August and then I’m trying to think of all the other things so um I’m still advising a few companies and I have you know a few months ago I was like really getting a little burned out from work and so I started traveling a little bit so I did a bitch I did a bunch of travel and now I’m kind of getting back into the whole like okay I need to hustle again so um so really I’m just trying to roll out the podcast the really I’m just working on this product it’s not o as well and like trying to get some preliminary studies really designed well where we what we want to do is do we’re doing accuracy studies right now just to really prove that we’re equivalent to the existing tools on the market and then we want to start studying different interventions different nutritional interventions to see how do we how do we continue to teach people how to lower postprandial glucose and lower fasting glucose and i’ve also developed some products in the meantime i’ve developed a skin a skin product that you know really has like changed my skin dramatically so I’m working on the labeling over my next vacation in with my family in July and then I’ll be testing this out on my community before I actually launch a website around selling it Mary and then I want to and then I’m trying to say what’s the secret magic sauce or what were the it has about 15 different oils okay it has yes base oils it has sort of they called bonus oils which are like they’re active oils but they’re not essential oils and then it’s got some oils and then it also has like a super hyper potent stabilized vitamin C and then it also has a it has a a couple new absolutes so it’s got a really amazing smell like it just smells like that magical and your skin and then it has some preservatives that are plant-based preservatives so it’s pretty pretty like though it does have one product that comes from an animal it has an emu oil in it which I’m gonna replace I think with macadamia oil just for the vegans because I know that because they’re not gonna want animal-based stuff and then and then I’m also trying I’m actually working on putting a sunscreen into this because I want this to be like an all-purpose skin product that essentially just does everything you needed to do for for your your skin because I’m try to become as minimalistic as I can as I started digging into fertility and understanding health I’m starting to realize that all these beauty products that I’m putting in and on my body are just not healthy and so I’m trying to develop a product that is all-purpose singular tool that just you only will need to put this on your skin and you’re gonna be good so that’s what I’m working on yeah I mean if I said anything about not needing more stuff now I mean I have a lot on your plate it’s pretty fun yeah yeah I mean thanks very much for coming by I mean this was actually gonna be the last podcast taping this thing oh my god so you’re closing out this version of the human podcast wow this era I mean honestly I I keep on the save your podcast and just from the very very beginning to now I’m so impressed with just how you guys have evolved like I love your work I’m I’m a fangirl of human you know you guys are great I actually doubted you oh yeah girl moans you guys so much when I first met you and now I’m like alright I’m joining the club thanks so much sure we’ll have to have you on in our new studio great in the coming month and I think it sounds like I’m gonna have a lot to report back on Graham yeah thanks so much hey I know a lot of you guys have been running in at podcast at human comm for different questions or topics or subjects that you would like myself and our research lead octave Rihanna stuffs the cover so let’s actually make a Q&A; special episode to answer any and all of your questions relating to our own personal performance protocols our research and backgrounds as biohackers and scientists and business people to you know what’s going on with human you know what products are we working on what R&D; are we working on what customers what are the feedback from the ketone ester how they address any and all questions so shoot us an email at podcast at human calm and once we have a big bank of questions we’ll do a special episode as always please subscribe for future episodes of the human enhancement podcast give us a five star review on iTunes and send a screenshot to podcast human calm and we’ll send you a free sprint mini are acute focusing tropic thanks so much and see you next time.

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